Prev: If you remember the last discussion, then you know Murs and I both enjoyed Secret Avengers and were willing to give it a few more issues to really gauge our opinions towards it. This time, we’re adding Laughing Paradox into the mix. Last issue ended with a doozy by having Nick Fury attack Sharon Carter. The story picks up moments after that attack, and we’re thrust back into a plot that sees the Avengers exploring Roxxon’s Mars base.

Let’s start out with general opinions. Was this issue worse, better than, or as good as issue 1?

Murs47. I liked Secret Avengers more than adjectiveless Avengers, but I did not think it was great.

Prev: I’m of a similar mind with Murs… and that shocks me.

Murs: We’re one step closer to fixing our marriage. <3

Prev: Fantasies aren’t real, Murs. Get it together.

LP: The Secret Avengers is perhaps the best Marvel book to come out since the “Heroes Return…”; I mean the “Heroic Age.”

Murs: Word. That and the new direction in T-Bolts.

Prev: Anyway, despite the book managing to fit a lot into it, there wasn’t a whole lot of forward momentum, and the characters didn’t really speak like themselves. I liked that the group split off so the plot could move a smidge bit quicker, and how awesome is it that Beast is actively fighting again? The X-men sidelined him so many times that it’s almost easy to forget he’s supposed to be an agile fighter.

Murs: I very much enjoyed Beast’s time in the spotlight. He feels relevant again. Him and Steve together feels so natural; kudos to Bru on that.

Prev: Brubaker accomplished more in 24 pages than Bendis did with 32 over in Avengers… of course that was full of splashes.

Murs: Bru’s done more in 1 issue of SA than Bendis has with 3 issues of the other two Avengers titles.

LP: I think it’s evident that Bendis’ Avengers books are inferior to the Secret Avengers and a large factor, for me, has to do with the roster. Secret Avengers has a varied group of veteran Avengers mixed with established, rookie Avengers, and the mixture is a pleasure to read. Bendis’ two Avengers books have weak rosters with no surprises other than Spider-Woman being on the wrong team.

Prev: Bendis’s Avenger books are both made up of various members of the NA, so it doesn’t feel drastically different despite one being tied into time travel and the other, magic.

LP: The Secret Avengers has a new take but feels like a story from the old Avengers book. The other Avenger titles have failed to even keep me interested. And also, let’s not forget about the art. I’ve enjoyed Deodato’s work for years, back when he was drawing Wonder Woman, and I like it as much today. Romita’s work on The Avengers, however, is a train wreck. Its discombobulated and ugly.

Prev: I have a few issues with Bendis owning two Avenger books in general, but that’s a discussion for another time. How do we feel about Cap keeping his energy shield? Well, that’s what I assumed it was. It was only in one panel.

Murs: I was pretty stoked about that; I wish I could have seen more of it, so I could update my skin.

LP: Steve isn’t “Cap” without his shield, and it was great to have it debut in this issue. Since Rogers passed the mantle on to Bucky, I think it’s fitting he went back to his energy shield, though I would not mind seeing him taking his Captain guise again since the US Agent is clearly not going to wearing his uniform any time soon.

Prev: I don’t think the shield debuted in this issue… unless it’s different that the one Bendis has Steve using pre-Siege. I didn’t really pay that much attention to it.

LP: Debut post-death. The latest death, anyway.

Prev: Moving on to the actual plot, I’m really interested in seeing where this Evil Nick Fury thing goes. Bru did a good job of building intrigue there. Of course, it’s also nice seeing Sharon active and not being sidelined while waiting on her man to do the job. That was the plot I wished got a little more focus only because the Mars main plot was mostly exploration. I have seen actual comments stating that the way Brubaker wrote this script and the sci-fi elements he fused into the story reminded them of Jack Kirby.

LP: I had the opposite reaction. I wasn’t as interested in the fake Nick Fury so much as the interaction between the team. War Machine expressing his doubt about the new Ant-Man, Moon Knight being the one to find the large drill hole since he’d be the most likely to search around, Beast using his smarts in putting a trace on the Serpent Crown.. there wasn’t much action, but I was intrigued.

Prev: I did like the Antman scene. It gave me hope that the character would be allowed to grow a little more. If I’m being honest, he didn’t change all that much in Tbolts. He was mostly just there his whole time. Moonknight was a bit weird to me because he was just taking orders like it wasn’t a big deal. That’s not the Moonknight I know, so it read wierd to me. Is that how he’s portrayed now? I was also disappointed that Black Widow and Valkyrie took such a back seat this issue.

Murs: I actually want to know more about HYDRA Fury (that’s what I’m calling him, accept it) He’s probably the thing that interests me most at this point. This is mostly due to my love of the Secret Warriors title. Moon Knight seems to be working properly so far. Ant-Man? Meh, I’d like him to be a bit funnier and perhaps perverted. I was ok with Val and Black Widow in the back because we spent more time with the plot and the other members. If this was Bendis, we wouldnt know what happened to Nova until issue 5.

Prev: That’s not true! He’d do a random time jump and then work up to that point for no particular reason. As much as I liked the issue, I did find the art to be of a lesser quality. The fight scene didn’t seem to be full of energy, imo, and there was a scene where Beast was out in space and was bare armed, though I can forgive that since he’s full of fur. Overall though, it just didn’t look as good as issue 1.

Murs: I thought one of Beast’s new mutant powers was to breathe in space (thanks, Morrison).

LP: And since when did Asgardians not need air to breath? I wasn’t aware Valkyrie could speak on Mars without a helmet. Asgardian-Ventriloquism? That was really the only complaint I had with the book, and it was minor.

But I disagree about the fight scenes. I liked seeing War Machine plowing down some foes and the gruesome fate of the last remaining soldiers. The art was good, but I’m bias.

Prev: Ok, two more questions and then we can begin wrapping this up. The first is a joint question.

1. People still seem to think that Beast should consider the Secret Avengers as bad as X-men’s X-force despite the obvious differences. With that fresh on your minds, do you think the double death (essentially mind-controlled assisted suicide?) in this book was going too far?

Murs: People need to read both before spewing out their opinions. The two teams are clearly different when it comes to killing. One does it mindlessly while the other just incapacitates. The Secret Avengers were trying to stop the minions from committing suicide. That should say enough.

LP: There’s no double standard. X-force was created as a killing team. (That makes me think, how would they do against the Marauders..)

The Secret Avengers are upholding the Avengers standard. They are just not operating in the spotlight.

Prev: And 2. Nova vs. Avengers… how do we think it’s going to go down. I’m really looking forward to that next issue.

Murs: Well, he doesn’t have his Nova helmet on, so Steve’s team probably has a good chance of defeating him. I’m guessing this is where Valkryie will shine.

LP: Nova is being controlled; he’s going to be ruthless. I expect a few members to take their lumps, and they will realize Nova is a force to be reckoned with. However, Valkyrie is going to apply the smackdown. Or in Asgardian, “she shalt smite him.”

Murs: Answer your questions, Prev.

Prev: There’s not much more I can add. I just want to see how well Brubaker utilizes Moonknight, Black Widow, and Valkryie in a real battle situation, so that should be a joy to see. I do suspect that the other Secret Avengers will need to lend a hand depending on what abilities Nova is allowed to express.

And now to draw this convo to and end. Final thoughts and ratings, everyone? Will we be buying the next book, and are you feeling the team dynamic a bit better this issue?

LP: The book was stellar. I fully intend to purchase this title religiously. Brubaker and Deodato are showing slivers of the team dynamic that makes me want to see more. The group is well rounded, they are facing an appropriate danger, and when compared to the other books out there, it’s in a league of its own. Best team book that Marvel has to offer, other than X-force.

Murs: Yes I will be. Brubaker has earned a 12 issue trial on whatever series he writes.

Prev: Look at you, Murs… being a Brubaker lover. I’m still willing to give it an arc. That’s more than I’m willing to give Avengers at this point. So, we’re all recommending it, yes? Sounds like a yes.

LP: A resounding YES from me. And I would like to recommend Brubaker’s run on Daredevil.

Murs: I second that. It’s arguably better than Bendis’ run. “In Bru I trust.”

Prev: And with those lovely parting words, I think we can call it a night. Next time, we should discuss something non-Avenger related… and get Podmark in here… so I can destroy him.

Murs: Sea-Bear & Grizzly-Shark!

LP: The Walking Dead!

Prev: Aye! Save it for next week, guys! Over and out.

Secret Avengers #2 Discussion

Prev: If you remember the last discussion, then you know Murs and I both enjoyed Secret Avengers and were willing to give it a few more issues to really gauge our opinions towards it. This time, we’re adding Laughing Paradox into the mix. Last issue ended with a doozy by having Nick Fury attack Sharon Carter. The story picks up moments after that attack, and we’re thrust back into a plot that sees the Avengers exploring Roxxon’s Mars base.

Let’s start out with general opinions. Was this issue worse, better than, or as good as issue 1?

Murs47. I liked Secret Avengers more than adjectiveless Avengers, but I did not think it was great.

Prev: I’m of a similar mind with Murs… and that shocks me.

Murs: We’re one step closer to fixing our marriage. <3

Prev: Fantasies aren’t real, Murs. Get it together.

LP: The Secret Avengers is perhaps the best Marvel book to come out since the “Heroes Return…”; I mean the “Heroic Age.”

Murs: Word. That and the new direction in T-Bolts.

Prev: Anyway, despite the book managing to fit a lot into it, there wasn’t a whole lot of forward momentum, and the characters didn’t really speak like themselves. I liked that the group split off so the plot could move a smidge bit quicker, and how awesome is it that Beast is actively fighting again? The X-men sidelined him so many times that it’s almost easy to forget he’s supposed to be an agile fighter.

Murs: I very much enjoyed Beast’s time in the spotlight. He feels relevant again. Him and Steve together feels so natural; kudos to Bru on that.

Prev: Brubaker accomplished more in 24 pages than Bendis did with 32 over in Avengers… of course that was full of splashes.

Murs: Bru’s done more in 1 issue of SA than Bendis has with 3 issues of the other two Avengers titles.

LP: I think it’s evident that Bendis’ Avengers books are inferior to the Secret Avengers and a large factor, for me, has to do with the roster. Secret Avengers has a varied group of veteran Avengers mixed with established, rookie Avengers, and the mixture is a pleasure to read. Bendis’ two Avengers books have weak rosters with no surprises other than Spider-Woman being on the wrong team.

Prev: Bendis’s Avenger books are both made up of various members of the NA, so it doesn’t feel drastically different despite one being tied into time travel and the other, magic.

LP: The Secret Avengers has a new take but feels like a story from the old Avengers book. The other Avenger titles have failed to even keep me interested. And also, let’s not forget about the art. I’ve enjoyed Deodato’s work for years, back when he was drawing Wonder Woman, and I like it as much today. Romita’s work on The Avengers, however, is a train wreck. Its discombobulated and ugly.

Prev: I have a few issues with Bendis owning two Avenger books in general, but that’s a discussion for another time. How do we feel about Cap keeping his energy shield? Well, that’s what I assumed it was. It was only in one panel.

Murs: I was pretty stoked about that; I wish I could have seen more of it, so I could update my skin.

LP: Steve isn’t “Cap” without his shield, and it was great to have it debut in this issue. Since Rogers passed the mantle on to Bucky, I think it’s fitting he went back to his energy shield, though I would not mind seeing him taking his Captain guise again since the US Agent is clearly not going to wearing his uniform any time soon.

Prev: I don’t think the shield debuted in this issue… unless it’s different that the one Bendis has Steve using pre-Siege. I didn’t really pay that much attention to it.

LP: Debut post-death. The latest death, anyway.

Prev: Moving on to the actual plot, I’m really interested in seeing where this Evil Nick Fury thing goes. Bru did a good job of building intrigue there. Of course, it’s also nice seeing Sharon active and not being sidelined while waiting on her man to do the job. That was the plot I wished got a little more focus only because the Mars main plot was mostly exploration. I have seen actual comments stating that the way Brubaker wrote this script and the sci-fi elements he fused into the story reminded them of Jack Kirby.

LP: I had the opposite reaction. I wasn’t as interested in the fake Nick Fury so much as the interaction between the team. War Machine expressing his doubt about the new Ant-Man, Moon Knight being the one to find the large drill hole since he’d be the most likely to search around, Beast using his smarts in putting a trace on the Serpent Crown.. there wasn’t much action, but I was intrigued.

Prev: I did like the Antman scene. It gave me hope that the character would be allowed to grow a little more. If I’m being honest, he didn’t change all that much in Tbolts. He was mostly just there his whole time. Moonknight was a bit weird to me because he was just taking orders like it wasn’t a big deal. That’s not the Moonknight I know, so it read wierd to me. Is that how he’s portrayed now? I was also disappointed that Black Widow and Valkyrie took such a back seat this issue.

Murs: I actually want to know more about HYDRA Fury (that’s what I’m calling him, accept it) He’s probably the thing that interests me most at this point. This is mostly due to my love of the Secret Warriors title. Moon Knight seems to be working properly so far. Ant-Man? Meh, I’d like him to be a bit funnier and perhaps perverted. I was ok with Val and Black Widow in the back because we spent more time with the plot and the other members. If this was Bendis, we wouldnt know what happened to Nova until issue 5.

Prev: That’s not true! He’d do a random time jump and then work up to that point for no particular reason. As much as I liked the issue, I did find the art to be of a lesser quality. The fight scene didn’t seem to be full of energy, imo, and there was a scene where Beast was out in space and was bare armed, though I can forgive that since he’s full of fur. Overall though, it just didn’t look as good as issue 1.

Murs: I thought one of Beast’s new mutant powers was to breathe in space (thanks, Morrison).

LP: And since when did Asgardians not need air to breath? I wasn’t aware Valkyrie could speak on Mars without a helmet. Asgardian-Ventriloquism? That was really the only complaint I had with the book, and it was minor.

But I disagree about the fight scenes. I liked seeing War Machine plowing down some foes and the gruesome fate of the last remaining soldiers. The art was good, but I’m bias.

Prev: Ok, two more questions and then we can begin wrapping this up. The first is a joint question.

1. People still seem to think that Beast should consider the Secret Avengers as bad as X-men’s X-force despite the obvious differences. With that fresh on your minds, do you think the double death (essentially mind-controlled assisted suicide?) in this book was going too far?

Murs: People need to read both before spewing out their opinions. The two teams are clearly different when it comes to killing. One does it mindlessly while the other just incapacitates. The Secret Avengers were trying to stop the minions from committing suicide. That should say enough.

LP: There’s no double standard. X-force was created as a killing team. (That makes me think, how would they do against the Marauders..)

The Secret Avengers are upholding the Avengers standard. They are just not operating in the spotlight.

Prev: And 2. Nova vs. Avengers… how do we think it’s going to go down. I’m really looking forward to that next issue.

Murs: Well, he doesn’t have his Nova helmet on, so Steve’s team probably has a good chance of defeating him. I’m guessing this is where Valkryie will shine.

LP: Nova is being controlled; he’s going to be ruthless. I expect a few members to take their lumps, and they will realize Nova is a force to be reckoned with. However, Valkyrie is going to apply the smackdown. Or in Asgardian, “she shalt smite him.”

Murs: Answer your questions, Prev.

Prev: There’s not much more I can add. I just want to see how well Brubaker utilizes Moonknight, Black Widow, and Valkryie in a real battle situation, so that should be a joy to see. I do suspect that the other Secret Avengers will need to lend a hand depending on what abilities Nova is allowed to express.

And now to draw this convo to and end. Final thoughts and ratings, everyone? Will we be buying the next book, and are you feeling the team dynamic a bit better this issue?

LP: The book was stellar. I fully intend to purchase this title religiously. Brubaker and Deodato are showing slivers of the team dynamic that makes me want to see more. The group is well rounded, they are facing an appropriate danger, and when compared to the other books out there, it’s in a league of its own. Best team book that Marvel has to offer, other than X-force.

Murs: Yes I will be. Brubaker has earned a 12 issue trial on whatever series he writes.

Prev: Look at you, Murs… being a Brubaker lover. I’m still willing to give it an arc. That’s more than I’m willing to give Avengers at this point. So, we’re all recommending it, yes? Sounds like a yes.

LP: A resounding YES from me. And I would like to recommend Brubaker’s run on Daredevil.

Murs: I second that. It’s arguably better than Bendis’ run. “In Bru I trust.”

Prev: And with those lovely parting words, I think we can call it a night. Next time, we should discuss something non-Avenger related… and get Podmark in here… so I can destroy him.

Murs: Sea-Bear & Grizzly-Shark!

LP: The Walking Dead!

Prev: Aye! Save it for next week, guys! Over and out.

Alright, guys… this concludes our second feature of comic discussion, and I’d like to thank Laughing Paradox for participating. Leave us some thoughts on what you think of this feature, the comic, or what have you. I’m definitely interested in hearing what books you think we should attempt to cover next, and, hey… if you want to join in, we definitely won’t say no. Thanks for reading.